Ep 7: Destination Highlight - LaRue Pine Hills "Snake" Road, Illinois

Today let's talk about the history and significance of one of my favorite destinations to see wild snakes - LaRue Pine Road or "Snake Road", Illinois!

All destination highlight episodes are places I have personally visited and recommend due to their ethical standards.

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Sources
Jochimsen et al. A Literature Review of the Effects of Roads on Amphibians and Reptiles and the Measures Used to Minimize Those Effects. Herpetology Laboratory Department of Biological Sciences: Idaho State University. 11 November 2004. https://idfg.idaho.gov/old-web/docs/wildlife/collisionAmphibRep.pdf 

Mississippi Bluffs Ranger District. Snake Migration LaRue-Pine Hills. US Forest Services. 2006. https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5106391.pdf 

 Palis, John G. Solving the Mystery of Wood Frogs at Snake Road. Bulletin of the Chicago Herpetological Society 55(6):117-120. 2020. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/John-Palis/publication/342850895_Solving_the_mystery_of_wood_frogs_at_Snake_Road/links/5f08b576299bf18816107d5a/Solving-the-mystery-of-wood-frogs-at-Snake-Road.pdf 

Palis, John G.; Boehler, Mary B.; & Vossler, John J. An Update and an Addition to the Anuran Fauna of LaRue-Pine Hills, Union County, Illinois. Bulletin of the Chicago Herpetological Society 54(10):201-203. 2019. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/John-Palis/publication/337183420_An_update_and_an_addition_to_the_anuran_fauna_of_LaRue-Pine_Hills_Union_County_Illinois/links/5dca1472299bf1a47b300678/An-update-and-an-addition-to-the-anuran-fauna-of-LaRue-Pine-Hills-Union-County-Illinois.pdf 

Schons, Mary. Snake Migration. National Geographic Society. 25 June 2019. Web. https://www.nationalgeographic.org/article/snake-migration/ 

 USDA Forest Service. LaRue-Pine Hills-Otter Pond Research Natural Area. United States Department of Agriculture. Web.  https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/shawnee/recarea/?recid=35185 

Transcript

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humane nature is an animal tourism podcast with discussions about animal abuse, injury and medicine, listener discretion is advised. Welcome back everybody to human nature, I'm your host, Stacia. Guys, this has been a week. So first of all, I had two very lovely guests do an interview with me just the other day. And we talked, you know, for an hour and a half we talked about that episode will come out later, so don't want to give too much away, but about how tourism is impacting coral reefs around the world, some very interesting stuff. And, and the audio got lost, the recording got lost, it never saved. I was absolutely devastated my first ever guests, and we're going to have to redo it. But hopefully that will come out for you guys next week. And on top of that, just you know, I'm still in the process of trying to get my name changed from getting married in 2020. And I've been running all over the city of Seattle, trying to, you know, get all that done while all these buildings and offices are closed because of the pandemic. So that's been a lot of fun. But anyway, I'm so glad to be back with you guys. This is definitely the highlight of my week to get to record this. Just nice and easy breezy by myself without having to worry about getting other people recorded and everything for this. So today, we are going to be talking about my favorite destination around the world to see wild snakes. And for those of you guessed it correctly, it is Snake Road in Illinois. Congratulations, you guys. But before we start that I do want to go over some wildlife and travel news from around the world. First of all, some big COVID COVID-19 Travel news, the WHO says countries should lift or lessen COVID-19 travel restrictions due to them not working at stopping international spread. We are you know so connected with everyone in the world now that these travel restrictions, because they don't stop everybody from coming over. People are still traveling for work, people are still traveling to ship cargo and food and all this other thing, all this other stuff around the world. The travel restrictions they've found are not really working. So most places around the world are starting to lift their travel restrictions, especially since we are able to be vaccinated now the majority of us so instead the WHO does advise a risk based scientific approach to combating the new variant, the omicron variant, instead of simply reinstating travel restrictions. So this means more of what we've been doing, but keep on doing it. So look at the risk of the area you want to travel to before you go get vaccinated. Get your boosters, as more boosters keep coming out, keep getting your boosters, this may be something that we have to do. You know, once a year just like the flu, as COVID-19 continues to have new new variants out there, just like the flu every year, just get your vaccines wear appropriate masks socially distance and get tested frequently. So if you are coming from a trip, really not even just abroad a trip where you're sitting in an airplane for quite a while Oh, that's Loki. I don't know if you heard him. He's hanging out with me today. Just continue to get tested. If you do test positive even if you don't have any symptoms, quarantine yourself for a little bit. Try to keep from spreading it to other people. We're still all in this together. But as more and more things change. as more information comes out things are going to change we are going to have some restrictions lifted some new restrictions put on us just we gotta we gotta roll with it guys. So I've got two big pieces of wildlife news for you guys that came out this week. A white rhino named Siha in South Africa, had his horn hacked off by poachers six years ago, and they, you know, basically left him for dead. But now he has been re-released into the South African reserve after more than 30 operations to close up that wound on his face and Siha's sinus cavities are still exposed. So he looks a little different than all of his other white rhino buddies out there. But this does increase the risk of infection but conservationists. And the veterinarian that was working with him all agreed that releasing him was the best thing to do at that point, he was ready. There wasn't a whole lot more than they could do for him. They didn't want to keep him, you know, caged for the rest of his life. And South Africa does have a dwindling population of white rhinos. So they're hoping that he will get out there and breed with some of the local females and bump up that pie... That population but so far Siha is doing very well and they are keeping a close eye on him. Researchers studying hippos in Mozambique have revealed that hippos both react to others vocalizations, and their own personal calls act as an identity signal. So hippos have very distinct individual voices just like humans do. And I thought that was fascinating. They have a huge variety of calls and sounds that they make, when they're greeting hippos that they recognize when they hear hippos that they don't recognize all that good stuff. And they also discovered that a hippo when they hear the call of a stranger coming towards them, they have a tendency to spray dung, they just kind of spray their poop everywhere, and not really sure why they do that yet. It's really only when they hear the strangers call. There's a much higher likelihood of them doing this whenever strangers are calling. But stay tuned. And I will keep an eye on on the reason why, why they're doing that. So today, we are going to be talking about a very ethical, very fun destination highlight the LaRue Pine or Snake Road, right smack in the middle of Illinois. So this is a very rural destination in the United States in Illinois, in the Midwest. But I have visited and I visited for the very first time in 2020. Despite living only a few hours away from it like growing up my whole life. I lived in southern Indiana, and moved out when I was 18 to go to college across the country. And I was only a few hours away from this place and never even knew it existed. So maybe you guys didn't know it existed either, and it's a really, really cool place to see. So here's some history and how LaRue Pine or snake road was formed because it is fascinating. So LaRue Pine Hills is incredibly biodiverse. And really unlike anywhere else in the United States, it is the only road in the world that is closed every year for snake migration, and it does this twice. And we'll get back into that in just a little bit. It is located in the Mississippi floodplain with these huge limestone bluffs. So the national park that it is located in is just built out of these huge limestone bluffs all over the place. And they're stunning and beautiful and really unlike any rock form I've ever seen. So on this road in particular, there are these huge bluffs on one side of the road, if you're depending on which side which direction you're facing, because there is parking on either end of this road, and there are bluffs on one side and a swamp on the other. So they're these two incredibly different ecosystems just on either side of this little gravel road. The limestone bluffs were once the bottom of the Illinois basin, which was a sea that covered the Midwestern United States. That's really hard to imagine now, I grew up in the Midwest, and it's all you know, mostly kind of grassland and flat and farmlands now, but at one point, it was a sea, like right in the middle of what is not the United States. And this limestone formed from calcium carbonate from dead sea creatures and shells over time. And so limestone is like layers and layers and layers of this calcium carbonate over time. And after the sea disappeared, wind and water erosion created the bluffs in the soft limestone. So, you cut into this limestone, you can see hundreds and hundreds of layers of different colors and different size like thicknesses and made out of these different materials. That was created over millions of years from from these creatures that have passed away. And it's really, really fascinating to see. So the bluff side make the dry side of the ecosystem. So the swamps are wet, obviously and the limestone bluffs are dry and they could be up to 150 feet like straight up in the air. So you've got dry 150 feet, high bluffs on one side and shallow wet swamp land on the other. And this is an ideal habitat for snakes. As the seasons change, they are going to move from the wetlands over to the dry, they stay warm in the dry and stay cool in the wet and we'll get more into that in a little bit. But let's keep talking about just this ecosystem before we get to the snakes. So this national park contains 14 natural communities including forests, wetland, Prairie, glade and Barr..... barren ecosystems and other geological features. It is home to over 1200 species of plants and animals, including endangered species, one of only two spots of Illinois where the native Shortleaf pine grows naturally. So this is one of two spots in the whole state of Illinois, which is also why it's called LaRue Pine road because of those Shortleaf pine pine trees. And this is really cool. Lewis and Clark actually explored the area in 1803. And Lewis actually wrote in his journal quote, "...but here puts in some high cliffs, the summit's of which are crowned with pitch pine and cedar. These rocks are nearly in many places, 60 feet, and the height of the hills appear about to be 120 feet above the banks, which forms their base." unquote. So that is pretty cool that when Lewis and Clark were on their little expedition around, you know, the undiscovered areas, at least, you know, for the Europeans, undiscovered areas of what is now the United States, they did visit the area of LaRue Pine so they visited the National Park. This area became a research natural area or an RNA in 1991, making it permanently protected to maintain biological diversity, biological biodiversity, those double B's are going to get ya. So now let's talk about what we're actually here for the wildlife at snake road. So LaRue pine road and Snake road are the same thing. It's technically called LaRue pine road. But the nickname is snake road because there are so many snakes and other reptiles that cross this road during their biannual migration. So LaRue road is most famous for its biannual snake migration. And again, why it is nicknamed snake road. So 66% of amphibians 59% of reptiles 90% of mammals and 173 bird species known to occur in the whole state of Illinois, can be found on this road at you know, different parts of the year. And within the 59% of reptiles, there are 35 species of snakes. So not just snakes we're including turtles and some other things but 35 species of snakes. It's also a very important resting place for migratory birds and waterfoul. So people don't just go for the reptiles. I mean, people mostly go there to see different snakes and reptiles and things but if you're a birder I see you out there. My father in law is really big into birding, it is a really great spot to spot some migratory birds as well. So, here is a huge list ya'll ready. Some common names and some of the species found at snake road are spiny soft shell, northern red bellied snake, spotted salamander, chorus frog, slimy salamander, broad headed Skink, eastern hognose snake, red milk snake, Midland watersnake, Western ribbon snake, Eastern rough green snake, Eastern garter snake, Western lesser siren, marbled salamander, small mouth salamander, Midwest worm snake, Central, newt, zigzag salamander, long tailed salamander, black rat snake, cave salamander, American Toad, Fowler's Toad, Copperhead, Blanchard's Cricket frog, northern spring peeper, Eastern green tree frog, Black Racer, Bullfrog, Green Frog, Southern leopard frog, Midland brown snake, common snapping turtle, stink pot turtle, Eastern Box Turtle, ringneck snake, Eastern Painted Turtle, red eared turtle, northern fence lizard, kingsnake, ground Skink, Western cottonmouth, five lined Skink, Western Earth snake, Western mud snake, and finally the diamond-backed water snake. Oh, okay. So, these are just common names of some of the reptile species that are there. So notice I didn't even name any mammals. I didn't name any... ok I named some amphibeans there, the frogs and things in there frogs and amphibians in there. So I didn't even name any of the mammals or birds that are known to frequent the area. So you can imagine how many different species of animals live there. And when I visited in October of 2020, so early October, I saw a lot a lot, a lot of cottonmouths, which are venomous but totally safe. I saw a beautiful ribbon snake and I will post a picture of that on my Instagram, when this episode comes out, so you can see this, I saw a stink pot turtles, American toads rough, a rough green snake, which was really cool. A water snake, and then deer, chipmunks, squirrels and lots and lots of various birds. So but mostly, I did see cottonmouths because of the time that I went, depending on what time you go, different species of snakes and amphibians will be crossing the road at different times during the during their migratory season. So So John G Palis, bless him. I read, I think six different studies that he's done on snake Road in my preparation for this episode, and he amazing, he is incredible. I'm not sure if he's a herpetologist. I'm not sure if he's in like an ecologist, I'm not sure what kind of scientist he is. But he did multiple studies on snake road. So he walked the road irregularly from Spring 1996 to fall 2015. So let's see that is nearly 20 years, tallying snake numbers and species. So he spent 195 hours over 65 visits, recorded over 2400 observations of 22 snake species. So he did not see every single species that is available to see on this on the road. And he wrote that he found 63% cottonmouths, which is the vast majority of the snakes that he saw 7.4% plane bellied water snakes, 6.7% Western ribbon snakes, 4.1% decays brown snakes, and 2.9%, rough green snakes. So he and I saw a lot of the same snakes versus when I went. he saw a greater number of snakes in fall, but he did see more species in the spring. So if your goal is to see the most number of snakes, most number of individuals fall would be the best time for you to go. Versus if you wanted to see a greater variety of species, but weren't necessarily needing to see like, you know, dozens and dozens of I'm exaggerating, you're probably not gonna see dozens and dozens of snakes no matter when you go. But you know what I mean, if you want to see more varied species, but maybe lesser in number, spring would be the best time for you to go. He also compared his findings to two other studies. And those other studies did find three to four more species of snakes. So it really is the luck of the draw, even if you're a professional looking for snakes and other reptiles and frogs and birds or whatever it really depends on the time of the year. It depends on the weather. It depends on how many other people are there. So I can't give you an exact date and exact time for you to go to see the most number of snakes but you will most likely see at least one while you're there. He also did a study on the wood frog which is very elusive and does make its home in snake road. And this wood frog has the most extensive range of any North American frog. It ranges all the way from Alaska to Northwest Georgia. So despite the wood frog having a huge range across the United States and Canada. It is very difficult to spot so the occurrence of wood frogs in snake road was a mystery until Palis's study. I hope I'm saying that right Payless Palace. I don't think you'd ever listened to this podcast. But if you are, let me know. I'm so sorry. I'm going to go with Palis though because that sounds right. He published this in 2020. So he was the one who found wood frog egg clusters for the very first time in a study despite multiple studies having been conducted there since 1960. And he concluded that timing was key to finding wood frog populations because they have an extremely short breeding season. And that breeding season does not overlap with Snake road road closures. So when snake road closes, the wood frog breeding season is already over. So that would indicate a really big reason for me why, if these other researchers are only going when the road is closed off to traffic, they wouldn't see the wood frogs because their breeding season is already finished. They breed actually for less than a week in early spring so Palis got extremely lucky finding he never saw like actual like breeding frogs, but he did see the egg clusters. So that's pretty cool. And wood frog vocal vocalizations have limited carrying power and may go undetected if the surveyor is too far away. So he did get extremely lucky and we are lucky that he got so lucky. Alright, so we're going to take a short break, and then we're going to discuss the problem with snakes and roads in general and then becoming roadkill. It's a really big problem. And I will also talk to you about how to visit snake Road, how to get there, what it's like to visit there, what their general rules are all that good stuff. So I will see you right after this. As a frequent traveler, the number one question I get from others is how I manage to find affordable flights around the world. My answer Skyscanner, Skyscanner searches through multiple airlines to find you the best deal, but what makes it different from other platforms? If you're flexible on your days, you have the option to select cheapest month to truly find the most affordable flight. fixed dates but flexible on your destination? Select everywhere and find the most affordable destinations for your time. My favorite way to find affordable flights is by selecting both cheapest month and everywhere. That way I could find some incredibly affordable flights from my home airport and discover some new destinations I never thought I would explore. Start planning your next vacation for free with Skyscanner using the link in the description. When you travel, you should be protected, especially if you enjoy adventurous activities or wildlife tourism. That's where travel insurance comes in. I personally use world nomads because their coverage makes the most sense for me. They cover injuries or illnesses, lost luggage, canceled flights, and even damaged electronics. Protect yourself and your trip with World nomads travel insurance, check if their coverage is right for you using the link in the description. All right, we're back. Thank you guys so much for listening to those and for supporting the companies that I'm supporting on here. I'm never going to recommend a company or service or a product that I don't personally actually recommend actually use actually endorse. So thank you so much for listening to that. And you know, while we were taking a little break, I played with Loki a little bit now he's sacked out on my feet and keeping me nice and toasty as I record this. So sorry, again, if you hear his little bell, although some of you guys enjoy it, which I totally would too. Alright, so let's talk about snakes, roads and roadkill. This is a huge, huge problem, especially for the conservation of snakes and other slow moving reptiles. So roads cover about 1% of the United States' landscape and influence an estimated 15 to 20% of land areas. So even though a road is not directly going over an area, it could influence the area around it by redirecting wildlife by maybe going through some of the resources that used to be there and you know, etc, etc. So, roads both directly and indirectly affect reptiles and amphibians in multiple ways. These can be from direct contacts such as roadkill, habitat loss, death, injury, or death or injury due to construction. So not just the road itself, but the construction process could kill or injure some animals, species fragmentation. So if there's a population and that population is split in half by a road being built in between them, that species is now fragmented. So it becomes that much weaker because there are less animals on either side less genetic diversity and so on. And finally, the alteration of ecosystem processes. So these all may influence the behavior survival, growth and reproduction of various animals. And there are some road crossing structures that have been implicated and they've been used with varying degrees of success. These include things like tunnels, overpasses, etc. They're very effective in decreasing levels of road mortality and isolation. So this does help with roadkill. And it helps with this species fragmentation. So if we put like a tunnel underneath the road or a little overpass over the road, that's meant specifically for the animals. Eventually, they do learn to cross over it. They learn from trial and error. Unfortunately, they see members of their species dying on the road, and they'll start to cross and they realize very quickly that if they use the bridge or the tunnel to cross the road, they have a much greater chance of surviving. So this does help prevent roadkill, it helps. You know, if two populations or a population was split in half because of the road, it helps them be able to cross back and forth to one another. Once again. I'm going to butcher this name, I'm very sorry, but giacca mensen jock, Jack Simpson Jorgensen, Jochimsen, et all, um, did an extensive study on types of roads and road crossing structures. And they recommend the following. So they did a study on roads all over the country all over the world, and the successes of different types of road crossing structures. They recommend conducting research to determine if roads and vehicles inhibit movement of amphibian and reptile populations. So you want to do that research before, during and after. investigating the diversity of impacts that roads and traffic have on populations using different scales, acquiring and incorporating information on the location and importance of roadkill sites to improve placements of road crossing structures. So this one is very important. If you spend the money and the time and the effort to build a road crossing area in a place that it doesn't really need to be, that's less time and money that you have to put it in a place that genuinely needs it. So you want to be doing this research well before you decide to put a structure and a structure in place. You want to identify key habitat features that serve as corridors to movement. So you want to try to avoid destroying or breaking or whatever these key habitat features and build the roads around them if at all possible conducting field experiments and monitoring studies that evaluate the efficacy of road crossing structures. So you not only want to do research before, but you want to do some field experiments and monitoring studies to evaluate these structures afterwards to see if numbers of roadkill have decreased to make sure that these different groups of animals are not suffering because of this road, and the establishment of performance standards, so we do want some kind of standard for these road crossing structures and have like kind of a bare minimum that they need to meet as far as performance goes. So we can't just like put something have have half have deservedly. Okay, I can't say that word, you know what I mean half-ass it and put it up and say that we did it and then move on. We need to have some kind of standard for these structures. And we want to develop ways to communicate this information as well. Whether that's new areas of journals, specifically aimed to this allowing them to be published in more places. So, due to being cold blooded snakes and other reptiles prefer to sunbathe on warm asphalt to help them digest food, making them easy targets for roadkill. So how many times have you been if you do live in an area that has snakes and turtles? Have you seen a snake or turtle or some other reptile hanging out on the side of the road or even in the middle of the road? It's nice and warm. If you're an animal that doesn't produce its own body heat, that you desperately need to digest food and survive. You're going to be attracted to these really warm flat roads, where you could just lay out and sunbathe and digest your food and all is well in the world. Except it's not because then a 16 Wheeler comes by and then crushes you, you know. So, we we want to protect these animals right? So biologist Rich Seigel states nearly 25% of snakes become roadkill. That's a lot. And that's really unfortunate. I personally have seen cars intentionally swerve off roads in order to hit snakes that are sunbathing on this side. So this was in Florida, where there are lots and lots and lots of snakes. But just like snake Road in Illinois, there is a road down near Sarasota, Florida, where I was living, where the snakes migrate across. And they have these like breeding balls, is what they kind of locally call them. Where basically all the snakes come out on this road in order to breed once or twice a year. And then when this happens, cars come out, and there's the road doesn't close or anything and the cars will both accidentally and purposely run over the snakes because people just hate snakes so much, which I have never understood. I mean, I guess part of me understands i Under I have learned the psychology behind it, but they're so necessary to protect our environment. In 1972, the Forest Service decided to close LaRue road for six weeks out of the year to protect migrating snakes, amphibians and other reptiles. So this happened because of the study. So we want to support the scientists and the studies and take the necessary precautions such as closing migratory roads, these roads that these snakes and other reptiles are crossing for migration or for breeding purposes, just like they did in snake road. So that was a really incredible thing way back in 72. Awesome job guys. They later changed it to 16 weeks when herpetologist Scott Ballard discovered the migration took longer than originally thought. So they went from six weeks to 16 weeks after more study. So once again, they decided what they needed to do, they did further studies after that decided that they needed to do more. At first these closures meant resistance, as locals did have fun driving around on this road to see how many snakes they could hit. Yeah, you know, fun. But now, because of education projects, and the number of tourist dollars this place brings in most of the locals are very supportive of it now, you know, with education, people will change their mind over time for these things. And closing this road has, number one, vastly increased the biodiversity in the area and protected this area. And two, this town is a very, very, very rural place. I don't think I've ever visited a town in America more rural in this one in the middle of nowhere in Illinois. And, you know, scientists and wildlife enthusiasts and travelers are coming to this road twice a year, every year to see the wildlife there and they're bringing in necessary tourist dollars. So it's a really good thing. It's a really great thing. So there are a few things that we can do to help with this problem. Not just at snake road, but all over the country and all over the world. Continue to support reptile amphibian and bird conservation research. So continue to if you have the means to help fund research. If you're a scientist, participate in the research, educate others on the importance of snakes. So if you know somebody who hates snakes, and would immediately want to kill a snake that they find in their yard, or are very resistant to building these structures, because they don't think that it matters that these snakes are being killed. Try to educate them try to tell them how much they do for us how they help cull the rodent population that can carry disease and eat all of our crops and how they do they do so many things for us. And finally, we can support bills and call legislatures on building more of these wildlife road crossing structures, especially in areas that have lots of slow moving reptiles such as turtles and snakes. So we want to continue to build these things we want to continue to make our cities and towns as eco and wildlife friendly as possible. Finally, let's talk about visiting snake road. So how do we get there I said it was kind of in the middle of nowhere. If you are coming from out of town you are going to need a car. There is no public transit here. There are not really any tours that come out here. It was a little difficult for me to find here is a pro tip for you. Do not put snake road into your GPS. That is what everybody calls it. That is what I thought it was actually named when We first went out there, we put snake road into our GPS. And we ended up on a just as rural road, but about three hours in the opposite direction as snake road in a different part of Illinois. So it is called LaRue pine Hills Road. And that is what you want to put your GPS to get here. Just so you guys know, don't make my mistake. The road itself is mostly flat, it is very flat, two and a half miles about four kilometers, and gravel. So if you are someone who has some difficulty getting around on gravel, you could probably get by on a wheelchair. But if you're someone who relies on like crutches or other kinds of walkers, this may not be the best place for you. Unfortunately, I would, you know, try to get them to build, you know, maybe look outs and everything, but they're trying to build as little as possible in here, understandably so. Just so you guys know, there aren't really any hills on the actual road, but it is gravel. There are 35 snake species in the area, and three of them are venomous. And their common names are the cottonmouth, the copperhead and the timber rattlesnake. So remember from my last snake episode, which was two episodes ago, these snakes will only bite you if cornered and provoked. So I you can do this accidentally. But if you stay on the gravel road, if you don't go off in the grass or in the rocks where you know the snakes could be hiding. And you don't approach any snakes that are either laying out on the gravel and asphalt or laying on the side of the road. Keep your distance away from them. Observe them from afar, maybe bring a high zoom camera so you can see them a little closer without having to approach them. They you will be totally safe. I was totally safe. And I even went off road a little bit you are allowed to get off the road, but you want to be extremely careful. So I was surrounded at one point by cottonmouths. I saw like 10 Cottonmouths around me. My husband went even further I stopped after I felt a little unsafe, a little hesitant to go forward and he went on without me. He found himself in a little like Cove and he sat there for a while and was very quiet. And he saw dozens of little copper or not Copperhead cottonmouth neonates, little baby cottonmouths poking their heads up. And as a huge herpetology enthusiast, he was in heaven, and I was so happy for him, but I was not comfortable walking through there. So don't go out of your comfort zone, do what you're most comfortable with. And just be as careful as possible, you guys because these are venomous. This is a very rural area. And if you do get bit, it's pretty far away to the nearest hospital, just so you know. So, um, LaRue Pine, or snake road does have some very strict rules in place for visitors due to being an RNA. So you are prohibited from collecting handling or removing any snake species. That means no touching. No picking them up. No moving them around. Just look at them. gathering herding, harassing or having in possession any any snake species. So you don't even if you're not touching them even if you're not doing anything, don't be that asshole who's going up and like harassing the snakes to try to get them to move around and do something cool on videotape you know? Don't Don't be that asshole. Rule number one Don't be that asshole. You're prohibited from the use of horses without a permit. So you are allowed on this road and in the park in general with horses but you do need a permit so you can go to the loo Whoa, whoa, the LaRue pine Hills Road website and if you want to go horseback riding in the area, just get a permit for it and you should be fine. No overnight camping on the road itself. There are a ton of camping grounds and camping sites in the neighboring areas but you do not camp overnight on the road itself. Building maintaining attending or using a campfire. gas stoves are allowed. So if you are camping in the area, you don't want to use a campfire unless you're in a specific area that's specifically saying that you were allowed to but if you're on the road and you're there all day and you you know brought some food or whatever you can use a gas stove. You can use that and use a gas stove in the immediate area but no building fires. No, excavating, disturbing or removing of any soil stone or material that means no taking any part of the limestone bluffs. No taking any like souvenir dirt, no taking any souvenir plants pressing flowers, any of that just leave it alone, it's it's highly protected for a reason. Cutting, killing, destroying, injuring or removing living vegetation. So like I said, don't touch any plants. Just Just don't do it. You can smell the flowers. Don't cut them. conducting research projects, tours or group visits without a permit. And this includes going on one of these without a permit. So no conducting any of these visits or projects without getting the proper permit first. And if you are in the area, and people are advertising, you know group tours and different things, and they don't have a proper permit. Don't go on them. Don't go with them. You could get into some serious trouble. possessing or using motorized or non motorized vehicles cycles or watercraft off off road. So when this road is closed it is closed, no cars, no scooters, no bicycles, no roller skates, no mopeds, whatever. Just Just walk use your feet. If you are in need of something like a wheelchair, obviously that's okay. But don't do any like non necessary Use of motorized or non motorized vehicles. No rappelling or rock climbing as this can damage the bluffs. No littering obviously we want to do practice our no trace, or no trace rules here no littering and leave it if you see any trash around you pick it up while you're there even if it's not yours. And finally, no building commercial buildings semi permanent or permanent camps or other structures. Bird bluffs if you are into birding bird bluffs are okay, but they must be removed by the end of the day so you cannot leave it up overnight. The road is open year round but is busiest in spring and fall during the snake migration season. So you can visit anytime of the year just remember this road is open to cars. Outside of these dates. They are closed to vehicles March 15 to May 15 And September 2 to October 31. Every year, every single year. So those are the best times to go. If you want to go for a very specific snake or reptile or bird species, just look up that particular species online see when they should be migrating in that area and that will give you a better estimate of when to go because these windows are pretty big. So the animals migrate back and forth between the limestone bluffs which is their winter home and the LaRue swamp which is their summer home which lie on either side of the road. So the limestone bluffs protect them from wind. They're a little warmer, they keep them nice and toasty and safe during the winter time because I grew up in Southern Indiana right next to Illinois. The winters there can be pretty brutal. And then in the summer, they can go to LaRue swamp where all the fish are all the frogs all the bird eggs all that good stuff for them to eat and for them to lie out on. Rocks are actually in the sun that aren't being shielded by the by the bluffs. So finally, let's talk about some safety to visit. You obviously don't want to show up in a sun dress and heels you are in the wilderness there are snakes everywhere including venomous snakes so dress like it, wear high thick hiking boots. I wear my ankle high like waterproof, thick boots. Pretty much everywhere I go my ankles need the support, but I was especially grateful to have them here. You also want to pair those with long hiking pants or jeans. Even in the summer when it is crazy hot in Illinois. This will just protect your legs and your ankles and your feet in case you do anger a snake and they strike at you. So this will provide you some level of protection, probably not complete protection, but it will provide a little bit of protection giving you that extra time to get to the hospital if needed. If you're going to step off the road, be extremely careful, they're off of the road, there is no like path there is it's very wild there are there's brush everywhere, rocks, water, like lots of places where the snakes could be hiding from you. And if you approach too fast, they could become fearful and try to strike at you. And remember, not all of these are rattlesnakes, only one of the three are considered rattlesnakes. So, they may not make any noise to warn you. Do not do not touch or approach the snakes. So don't get so close that they can strike at you don't get so close that you're going to make them mad if you see one. Remember six feet rule this worked for the COVID pandemic stay six feet away from your friends. This is also a wildlife rule stay six feet away from wildlife. And that is a just a general rule of thumb that you should always be following. Stay quiet to listen to warning rattles and other noises. So not all of them are going to have one. But you want to stay as quiet as possible to listen for these warning sounds. And if you're lucky, you can also hear you know, frogs croaking and birds chirping and it's very beautiful and you don't want to ruin it with all this you know, human chatter, bring snacks and extra water, you will probably be out there longer than you think. Because it's not just walking the two and a half miles down and back. You're going to be stopped to see snakes you're going to be you know stopping to chat with other people because there are some very lovely people that you will meet out there. So bring snacks bring more water than you think you need. Always bring more water than you think you'll need. And finally, just please follow all the posted rules. They're there for a reason this place is highly protected and I don't want any of you to get in trouble. So alright, thank you guys for listening today. If you want to see pictures of my visit from at snake Road, be sure to visit my Instagram at Stumble Safari. I also posted them on Facebook and Twitter over the last week as kind of like a teaser leading up to this episode to see how many of you guys could guess where I would be covering. So be sure to follow me on Facebook and Twitter as well at Stumble Safari and visit my website stumblesafari.com I do have a blog article that has lots and lots of photos from my visit there as well. And some more kind of like storytime for me from visiting rather than more of this information that is more for my podcast. So I will post that article in the description for my website and thank you guys so much. I will see you next time. Sources for today's episode can be found in the description. Thanks for listening